Talk:Maisie Williams

Thoughts pre-GAN

So some quick comments that I think I would look to be addressed if I was reviewing this at WP:GAN:

• Avoid awkwardly placed references (e.g. "and Norton Hill School[9] in Midsomer Norton,")
• " GCSEs" don't assume the audience knows this, expand (and explain these kinds of things if necessary) before using abbreviations.
• Look at MOS, e.g. " 2011 — 2019" should be "2011–2019".
• Avoid overlinking, there's a tool on the "tools" panel which identifies where those are, e.g. BBC, The Woman Who Lived etc.
• I don't think episode numbers are needed.
• For images where more than one person is featured, consider using "(left)" or similar to ensure no ambiguity.
• "fellow Generation Z .[57][58][8] " it's not mandated but I do prefer to see references in numerical order.
• " a youthful, fresh and quirky style," these are somewhat POV, and should be attributed/quoted.
• I would expect the Role column to sort in alphabetical order per surname.
• A few refs missing from those tables.
• Some people like to use row spans for identical entries within tables. Worth considering, but not essential.
• Note a is unreferenced.

Tidy up those things and GAN will be a cake-walk. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:27, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks, I made a start. Not sure how to fix the role column to sort properly. I received advice regards identical entries within tables, to remove row span as per wp:accessibility to help folks with readers. Will fix more tomorrow. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 22:49, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Unable to see the over-linking tool, but removed some obvious ones manually. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 13:38, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Maisie Williams/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 15:34, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Large overlap with a particular source according to Earwig's Copyvio Tool. Will investigate this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Yaye the copy violation banner has been removed by an editor from Wikipedia:WikiProject Copyright Cleanup ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 12:49, 5 June 2020 (UTC). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:25, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

2. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

3. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

4. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   No issues found.

5. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review comments - I'm happy to discuss or be challenged on any of my comments. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Sources

• Different source needed for Theatre section, Wiliams' Instagram post is not suitable for this.

The is reference to the play 'I and You' being officially broadcast on Instagram by the Stage and the Guardian, but I can not see where the article uses Williams' own personal Instagram account as a source. However the is at the end of the initial Game of Thrones Section the statement 'The final episode aired in May 2019'.... is sourced from "Maisie Williams posts on Instagram: 'Goodbye Game of Thrones'". United Press International. Retrieved 9 July 2018. I am not sure if the United Press is a good enough source

I replaced this with a better ref anyway ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 16:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

It's (currently) reference 122 under the Filmography / Theatre Section - adding one of the other refs here too will be fine.

BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:41, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 18:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

• Dictionary of American Family Names. Oxford University Press, 2013 is via Ancestry.com. I may be able to check directly with the OUP book. - via Google Books
• Official Video: Sing – Pentatonix - can't see where this confirms that Williams appears.

I am happy to have this chopped her Filmography, I have so far been unable to find a good reliable source to back up her short appearance. She is definitely in the video, but the reader would only know if they played it. If you think I should remove it, just say remove. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 16:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll get back to you on this one. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:41, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done /Removed (i am can be very guilty of acting too quickly sometimes) ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

• Lead
• "a portrayal that quickly brought the new actress global attention" - might need a bit of reworking, unless sources confirm this.

I was thinking the fact that she went from unknown would be dancer to a co-star in a international hit TV show, with all the extra buzz round it was sufficient (sources in rest of text) but I maybe lazy ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 23:50, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I added a wikilink on 'global attention' to the Viewership section of the main Game of Thrones page not sure if that is acceptable. Y ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 22:58, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Everything in the lead should be covered in the main article as well. I suggest using something like this source (which uses the phrase "global superstar") and adding something in the Acting Career section. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:19, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Now done, if acceptable. Y ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 01:48, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

• "featured in her first feature film" - suggest changing either featured or feature to another word.

 Done yep I think it was another victim of my many attempts to change the wording.

• "for which she received critical praise and award recognition." - either add an "also" between "she" and "received", or bring the critical praise and recognition bit after The falling, e.g. "For both roles, she received critical praise and award recognition."

 Done, I think it is good to have praise/awards after her Games of Thrones career launch, but I am not sure about repetitive praise and awards, so I changed the wording a tiny bit

•  Pending - not sure yet whether all of the genre descriptions are included in the article, I'll go through these.
• These descriptions are in the lead but not later in the article, they should be added in, where supported with sources. (It doesn't need to be the exact same wording in both lead and main body.)
  • The Falling - "melodramatic"
  • Dr Who - "science fiction"
  • iBoy - "science-fiction teen thriller"
  • Then Came You - "romantic comedy-drama"
  • Early Man - "historical sports film comedy" (possibly better to use "prehistoric" as per article body.)
  • Gen:Lock - "set in a dystopian future"

all  Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 01:48, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

• "Williams is also an Internet entrepreneur." - need to add this explicitly in the article. The Production company and social media app section doesn't make this statement (although a reader may well infer this).

 Done

• "be a device upon.." - probably needs a different word to "device", e.g. "to be a showcase for creators' work"

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 23:50, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

• Infobox - is there a source for her height?

Avoiding a few more dodgy websites I found https://www.bustle.com/articles/18811-how-tall-are-the-game-of-thrones-actors-see-how-your-favorites-stack-up I can add it as a citation if acceptable. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

WP:RSP says for Bustle "reliability should be decided on an instance by instance basis" - as the article is specifically about actors' heights I think it's OK here. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done, added citation

• General formatting
• There's a bit of inconsistency with quote marks (e.g. " / ') - (see MOS:QUOTEMARKS)

Um, Have excuses, excuses, feeble excuses, sometimes when I use " I get italics when I dont want them.

Anyway all {{done}, I think. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 14:01, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

• Early life
• "to Hilary Pitt (now Frances)" - as Frances can be a forename or surname, how about "to Hilary Pitt (now Hilary Frances)"?
• I think "her mother (and stepfather)" could lose the brackets.
• 'when she was tiny,' - citation straight after after direct quote (as there are three citations for the sentence).
• "her likeness to the cartoon character" - maybe needs another word in there, as it's an opinion not a fact that she was like the cartoon character. "her perceived likeness.." is probably not the right phrase, but something along those lines. (I might think of something later.)
• "her national academic GCSEs exams" - I know there was a peer review comment about expanding on GCSEs rather than assuming audience knowledge. I think something like "She left school at 14, before taking her final secondary school examinations" might be better.
• I'd probably re-order the last lines a bit too, and lose some brackets. (There are quite a few in this section; I use them too often myself.) e.g. "For a couple of years she was taught at home. She left school at 14, before taking her final secondary school examinations (which she had been predicted to gain high grades in), partly due to personal difficulties she experienced going back to her regular school whilst starring in a popular television series and also because of the successful commencement of her acting career."

all  Done as suggested

• Acting career

• Game of Thrones, 2011 – 2019

• I think the second para (the one that starts with "Sophie Heawood …") needs a bit of work. MOS:PUFF gives an example that might be useful.

 In progress ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 23:02, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

resting tonight before final check ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 23:13, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 In progress Sorry I have not slept well for months and I know I am failing to complete this task atm. Any suggestions are very welcome or small break? ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 20:28, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi Bodney Well, there is WP:NOHURRY so whatever works for you is fine by me. I'll have another look now, and, as ever, if I make any edits you're not happy with, let me know. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:01, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether The Telegraph confirms Arya is a "fan favourite" - if not then another source could be added. (e.g. this). Other than that, I've changed a few words and I think with either the additional reference or confirmation that Arya is described as a fan favourite or equivalent in one of the other sources, this para is OK if you have no objection to my edits. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:24, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

No I am happy, I was worried I was getting bogged down with Arya. I will add that citation, its good to have a more up to date one and not a picture chart. The Telegraph one was more to support Arya's turbulent story arc across the first six seasons.Ydone if acceptable ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 23:01, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

• "At the age of 14, in 2011 (after her second ever audition) Williams began her professional acting career co-starring in one of the largest ensemble casts on television." - has something of a promotional tone.

Ydone if acceptable ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:52, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

• "and his entire undead army with one strike." - merits a few words to explain this, I think. (i.e. that the army is wiped out because of the Night King's death.)

Y done if acceptable ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 12:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

• "Recognition for Arya Stark" subheading - as it was Williams who was recognised, perhaps "Critical Reception" or just "Recognition"?

 Done as suggested ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 12:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

• "For her second year of professional acting she was submitted for" - the source only mentions the one role as far as I can see. Maybe "In her second year of professional acting she was nominated for Outstanding Supporting Actress category for the 2012 Primetime Emmy Awards, by HBO, but did not make the nomination shortlist."?

 Done as suggested ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 12:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

• added a citation needed tag.

Ydone if acceptable ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 12:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

• suggest a reword of the relevant line to "Also in 2017 Williams appeared as Isabel Baxter in Mary Shelley, a romantic period-drama film directed by Haifaa al-Mansour and written by Emma Jensen."

 Done as suggested ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 12:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

• Other acting roles, 2012 onwards - copyedited, let me know if there's anything you disagree with.

"was described as "superb"" - add some thing like "according to John Doe in The Radio Times" or ""by a review in The Radio Times".

 Done, added critics name, also added three other quotes and critics name, one regarding the Falling and 2 for her acting in GoT. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 14:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• "In the same year" (3rd para) -as the last sentence in the previous para refers to both 2014 and 2015, probably best to specify the year here.

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:52, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

• "her accent morphed around a bit." - how about something like "her accent varied during the film" or "her inconsistent accent"?

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:52, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

I've Assumed Good Faith on the Daily Telegraph source - the headline is certainly very positive.

Note: I have added a few little extras over the last few days, mostly any comments i could find regards her acting, you may wish to look at this sub section again. The is only one I am unsure about Craig Holton of flickfeast regarding her acting on Corvidae ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 19:07, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

flickfeast appears to have editorial control in place rather than being a collection of self-published articles, so looks OK here. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:06, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

• Upcoming roles - copyedited, let me know if there's anything you disagree with. There's a lot in the first sentence but I think it's OK.
• Commercial promotional work - copyedited, let me know if there's anything you disagree with.

• Production company and social media app

"set up Daisy Chain Productions with Dom Santry and Bill Milner in early 2016 (both of whom she met during working on iBoy)" - how about "set up Daisy Chain Productions in early 2016 with Dom Santry and Bill Milner (both of whom she met during working on iBoy)"?

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Stealing Silver, as the first production, probably merits a sentence about it.

 Done (I should really say something like 'fix attempted' :) ) ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

"alongside Dom Santry, with whom she also founded the film production company Daisy Chain Production" - "alongside Santry" would probably be enough, as the company foundation is covered in the previous paragraph.

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

The description of Daisie reads a bit promotionally, maybe include something a bit more about what the app actually does (if that info is available) alongside the quote from Williams.

I was cursed at birth with a natural Marketing brain

::In gradual process .. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC) . :: ToDo (in a couple of days maybe) ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 16:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC) .

Y done if acceptable Paragraph rewritten, expanded with better references (arguably too many, but they are all used)

I've made a few copyedits. We can discuss any you're not happy with. I wasn't too sure about the phrase "going on to talk about opportunities" - can this be slightly expanded? (e.g. opportunities for who, or to do what?) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:49, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

 Done Expanded, maybe too lofty? ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 14:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Please check where the quote ends and put the source at the end of it. There are very similar quotes across various sources. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 14:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Note:

I have uploaded a (probably non free) image of the apps Logo File:Daisie Logo.png to Wikipedia (not the commons due to advise) for possible use in the section... I have asked on Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia:Media copyright questions for advice (the latter with no feed back so far.. I have also sent a request to use it to Daisie itself.

Fair Use in the Maisie Williams article in the relevent section, this is the logo of her own company. (Currently the is not an article on the App itself.) The sole purpose of the use of the copyrighted image is to visually illustrate and educate readers about the existence of the Daisie App. The image is currently not replaceable with an uncopyrighted or freely copyrighted image of comparable educational value. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

The paragraph starting "In May 2019 Daisie…" may benefit from a little copyediting.

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Looks fine now. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

TEDx could be linked to TED_(conference)#TEDx

 Done ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Fashion and personal life

Consider moving this section to after "Animal and environmental advocacy."

Because her advocacies seemed very personal to Williams I was going to include them under a general personal life heading, but then her Personal Life section became mostly about fashion ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

OK as is, it was just to consider. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

First sentence needs a bit of rewriting.

'cultivated a quirky, youthful' 'Street style' - if this is a direct quote then it should be attributed. I could only see the start of the Telegraph articles so not sure whether it is a quote.

'cultivated a quirky, youthful' is taken from the Telegraphs 'Maisie Williams on finding her style, growing up in the spotlight... and the final series of Game of Thrones' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/maisie-williams-finding-style-spending-45-million-fortune-final/ ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

'Street style' comes from the Teen Vogue article, but perhaps a better fashion citation is from Vogue itself ... 'Game of Thrones’s Fiercest Warrior Was the Breakout Front Row Star of Paris Fashion Week' https://www.vogue.com/article/paris-menswear-shows-front-row-star-game-of-thrones-maisie-williams ...I have added that citation. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

I think the article should mention that the phrase is from the Telegraph (mentioning the author, something like "John Doe in The Daily Telegraph described Williams' style as …"); whereas the "street style" bit doesn't seem to me to need a direct attribution. As it stands, the "who as a celebrity" bit should probably be reworded as the sentence doesn't quite work. (e.g. replace that phrase with just "and") BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Reworded slowly, Y done if acceptable still might need improving. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

What is the verification for "courted by the fashion industry"?

To be honest, it is my own wording based on the celebrity fashion media circus that now surrounds Williams, where she has become the subject of numerous fashion magazines/websites and fashion designers give her clothes she promotes just by wearing them ... simply because she has become a famous person, through acting. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

As a reference 'Maisie Williams on finding her style, growing up in the spotlight... and the final series of Game of Thrones' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/maisie-williams-finding-style-spending-45-million-fortune-final/ ..... "Williams has received her share of attention from the fashion industry. American brand Coach enlisted her as a ‘friend’, meaning she gets to wear its clothes for parties, premieres and high-profile events. ‘Maisie’s sense of optimism, authenticity and individuality make her the perfect Coach girl,’ says executive creative director Stuart Vevers" .... ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Y done if acceptable [User:Bodney| ~ BOD ~ ]]^TALK 21:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

"She shares a mutual love for design with Selby" - this seems to slightly beyond what's in the quoted sources.

From Elle article .... 'Sitting FROW at runway shows for the likes of luxury fashion brands Givenchy and Thom Browe (regularly in coordinated ensembles), the actress and entrepreneur ... share a mutual love for design .... and A-list parties. Selby has even stepped up to design one of the Game of Thrones star's red carpet outfits.' ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

I suggest adding the Elle source after this statement, as at the moment it's ahead of it. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Moved down ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 23:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

his girlfriend's - replace with "Williams'" (unless I've misinterpreted something); or just say "communications director of Daisie".

Despite the media circus that follows Williams, she does keep most of her private life private. Selby is refereed as her Boyfriend in a few fashion magazines and the is a captioned pic from Hollywood Reporter slide photo thing https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/gallery/see-all-front-row-stars-at-new-york-fashion-week-spring-summer-2020-1237533/41-rueben-selby-and-maisie-williams so I guess rather weak for a personal fact in a BLP .... I guess also if girl/boyfriend is gone, maybe the title Private life should go too. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 12:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

 DoneForgot to add ...changed 'his girl friend's to Williams, as suggested ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

If the relationship is covered in reputable independent sources than it's valid to include, as long as everything complies with WP:BLP and other relevant policies. Maybe it could be stated in a new sentence, noting that they have a professional as well as personal relationship. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Until now the best sources I could see were the leading fashion magazines but just found another of those celebrity photo slide things, this time in the Independent ~ https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/gucci-fashion-week-shows-seasonless-alessandro-michele-milan-coronavirus-a9533216.html' ~ All the stars on the front row at London Fashion Week' February 2020 ~ 16/52 Maisie Williams and Reuben Selby

"The Game of Thrones star and her boyfriend, the co-founder of modelling agency Contact Agency, attended the Christopher Kane show together, Williams in a black mini dress". ~ not a lot of detail and does not really add anything apart from the sources status. Atm not sure how to word a fresh sentence, as the is not much extra detail... In the end I added that he is her boyfriend in the previous sentence and added the Independent reference. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 07:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC) 23:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Added The Independent Ref anyway as it is a mainstream reliable source. The is not much more that can be said about her relationship and private life, she keeps it mostly guarded. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 20:19, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Y done if acceptable

I've made some copyedits, please revert any that you don't like. If you're happy with the changes then I think this section is OK now. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:49, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

I am very appreciative of any improvement. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 23:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

• Animal and environmental advocacy
• Filmography - although this heading seems to be used in quite a few GA's, I'd suggest it is changed to something that describes a wider range of media than film - perhaps "Performances" or "Credits"?

 Done I agree with your argument ...I changed the heading, the might be a better one. Williams has also done some production work, but nothing that notable yet, if it does it can go under a similar simple heading. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:03, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Feature Films
• Short films
• Television
• Music Videos - all OK except Sing – Pentatonix mentioned above. Probably better to omit this unless there is another source.

 DoneRemoved ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 07:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

• Theatre
• List of Awards No issues found. About.com (now Dotdash) has no consensus at WP:RSPSOURCES - I'm comfortable with it being used here.

General

• Audio version of the page is from 2014, can this be updated (after other improvements)?

This would be great, but I have no clue how to.

There's no rush for this, I'm sure we can work it out. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:41, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I'd assumed there was a tool that did this but it seems to be down to the efforts of the editors here. You might want to add this page to their backlog later.

I am intrigued where the copy violation might be ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 16:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

'Oh I see, on Amazon, it does look like an earlier version of the article, how do we know if the article copied Amazon or Amazon based their entry on Wikipedia? I am of course happy to reword if needed. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 17:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Like you, I suspect it's probably a copy from Wikipedia rather than from Amazon, but as I couldn't find an archived copy of the Amazon page to confirm this, I've added the template from WP:BACKWARDSCOPY. It produces a rather alarming box on the page but at worst some rewrites will be needed. Thanks for responding so quickly to my first set of comments - I'll let you know when I'm ready for you to look at the next round, as sometimes I write a point down then find it's resolved by something else in the article. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:41, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

The template is indeed scary. Should I start the rewrite tomorrow or wait, much of the duplication is her awards, which I cant change. (I hope this italic green font is OK to distinguish my replies and actions from your recommendations) ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 18:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@Bodney: I've seen some large percentage matches before just for things like show titles and awards, but there are some distinctive phrases shared between the article and the other source too. Let's see if there's a steer from WP:CP before you go to the effort of rewriting, as that may not be required. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:34, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

yes ... lol good to stop me acting too quickly ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

 Working Not sure The fact that at a early stage part of this article, before I got more involved might have been at some stage copied from Amazon really bothers me (personally I do not shop there). So I have been unable to stop myself re-editing parts. I hope this is OK. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 01:57, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Apologies and  Self-trout I must stop obsessively tweaking the article (in attempt to differentiate it) with mostly minor edits, I fear my actions are making the article a bit unstable. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 14:16, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Bodney We all have our own ways of working. No apologies needed. I'll take another look now. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:10, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Today, apart from addressing your recommendations, I have been compulsively beavering away, adding details throughout the article, and I had thought the article was up to date (I guess the is not much more). ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 20:23, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Apologies, I probably should not have messed around with section titles half way through a review, but thought the end of the article looked tidier with the last two more semi-private persuits in the article (prior to credits and awards) grouped together. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 22:40, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi Bodney thanks for taking on board all of my comments. I'm happy with the responses above. I've done another bit of copyediting - hopefully nothing objectionable. At the moment I have just one query, but I will have a re-read tomorrow with fresher eyes. Under the Production company and social media app section, "(similar to other social networks)" can, I think, be removed. If not, then it should be explicit that the similarity is in process (rather than the profile). Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:27, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done, three days ago but I forgot to record my action here. I made a change to the cultral impact today. Plus I still got the Logo of Daisie and I am still not sure whether I should add it (I have asked on the Media copywrite boards). ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 01:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I think you should wait for a steer on the logo from the experts before including it - for UK logos the rules are pretty strict.

Acceptable  Done  In progress I have resubmitted my query to the Wikipedia:Media copyright questions project page.

The phrase "William's character impacted popular culture;" is probably unnecessary.

Y done if acceptable ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 13:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, missed this before, but I think it would be better to remove (or amend) the subheading "Upcoming roles" and amend the text for a bit of future-proofing. E.g. "As of March 2020, Williams was set to star as Marvel's Rahne Sinclair/Wolfsbane.."; "Later in 2020, she is due to star as.." to "In June 2019 it was announced that in 2020 she would star as .." ; "Williams was cast as a young woman who reluctantly agrees to participate in a botched robbery alongside her delinquent, no-hoper boyfriend in The Owners, a 1990s-set thriller planned for release in 2020."

 Partly done  Semi-done done if acceptable ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Bodney. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:21, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I believe the sub heading title is acceptable. It clearly distinguishes that the unreleased roles (and other work) under its title are seperate from the released acting roles above. As the work is released the entrys can be simply removed from this section, be updated and placed in section(s) that cover released acting roles. Myself or any other editor can do this as things progress. It is purposefully not fixed at any point in time, but to the current present time, whatever that is.

And Thanks to you User:BennyOnTheLoose, whatever the result of this article's nomination, your suggestions have noticeably improved the article throughout, which is my main objective. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 13:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I had a look at MOS:BLPTENSE and the guidance there is "It is best to avoid time-dependent statements" rather than a prohibition. Thanks for your kind feedback but obviously my contribution to the article's improvement is minor compared to yours. It's a shame that the copyvio red herring caused some delay. I'm happy that all of the points I raised have been dealt with, and that the article is now GA standard. Well done, Bodney. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:00, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Even so, thanks for all your encouragement and recommendations that helped me improve the article. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 15:08, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 08:13, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Maisie Williams almost missed her Game of Thrones audition because it coincidedclashed with a school field trip to a pig farm? Source: The Guardian
  • ALT1:... that Maisie Williams, whose given name is Margaret, got her nickname from The Perishers? Source: The Telegraph

• Reviewed: Irreantum

Improved to Good Article status by Bodney (talk). Nominated by Trillfendi (talk) at 15:48, 29 June 2020 (UTC).

• — It has been more than 7 days after passing GA. (Promoted on June 19 but it was nominated on 29 June). ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 14:17, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Ouch. Only three days. @Evrik and Yoninah: Sorry to ping you two, but you have the most DYK experience of anyone I know. Is this a hard rule that must block a nomination, or can it be overlooked given that someone other than the improver nominated it? Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 15:11, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

For what it’s worth, I’ve had other DYKs pass even when it had been slightly longer than a week, such as 10 days. Trillfendi (talk) 15:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• Everyone is allowed a lapse now and then. I think we can IAR this. @CAPTAIN MEDUSA: you can proceed with your review. Yoninah (talk) 15:41, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) IMHO: We should hereby follow the rules. I think it creates a huge mess, for eg, "so that was approved so why not mine". It easily becomes an ugly mess. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 15:44, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• @CAPTAIN MEDUSA: If the problem is that the article is huge, I'm happy to do the review. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 15:48, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• Psiĥedelisto, That's not the problem, all I think is that it creates a mess. I can still do the review (if desired). ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 15:51, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• It is a rule, but we overlook three days all the time. --evrik ^(talk) 15:54, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• I suggest changing For DYK purposes, a "new" article is no more than seven days old. To avoid creating confusion between editors. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 16:31, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

• An RfC might be a good idea, CAPTAIN MEDUSA, but it should not hold up consideration of this nomination. They can run concurrently. Consensus is that the lapsed period can be overlooked in this case. A broader RfC can and perhaps should happen, but we can move forward on this without that given the consensus here. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) ^{please always ping!} 07:29, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:19, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• GA received 10 days before nomination (IAR on the nomination date). New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Images in article are freely licensed. QPQ done.
• ALT0 is the better hook, but the word "clashed" is lifted from the source; the other source says "interfered". I edited the sentence in question to remove the close paraphrasing. What other wording would you like to suggest? Yoninah (talk) 20:39, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Coincided? Trillfendi (talk) 22:40, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

• Nice, thanks. ALT0 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 23:35, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistent dates

In 2011, she debuted in a professional acting role at age fourteen, starring as Arya Stark

At the age of 11, in 2009 , Williams started her professional acting career by co-starring in one of the largest ensemble casts on television. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.80.32.134 (talk) 16:42, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Corrected atm. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 16:56, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Why is Arya Stark stuff here, instead of at Arya Stark?

Title sums up the question. Anyone object to wholesale cross-article move of much of the topic, e.g., use of Arya as a name? Jclemens (talk) 23:50, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Its 2.30am here so I hope to give/improve my reply tomorrow :) I guess you are referring to the two paragraphs under Cultural impact? While the information could be indeed be included on the Arya Stark article, where does the popularity of character end and the fame of an actress start. It is here also as much of the credit is to do with Maisie Williams herself.

I'm in no hurry to move anything, yes. If girls are called Maisie, then yes, that belongs in this article. Arya or Arie? Not so much. Jclemens (talk) 02:04, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

This section was included (with more detail, apart from the additions i made yesterday) when the article was passed for GA status. The rising popularity of the name while obviously based a great deal on the fictional character, can also be equally regarded to be very much due to the celebrity popularity of the previously unknown actress who brought the role very much to life. It is as least as much a popular culture form of accolade to William's debut break out portrayal (a bit like a popular version of the critics awards ~ Emmy, Golden, Oscar or Bafta), as it is to George R. R. Martin's or Benioff and Weiss HBO's TV character. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 18:26, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

As a GA reviewer myself, I would fail the article as it currently reads on WP:WIAGA criterion 3.b. as it's not focused on its topic, Maisie Williams, but includes too much about Arya. At the very least, our coverage of the phenomenon in the Arya article ought to be at least as strong as what we have here, but I would strongly suggest moving it out of this article and into that one. It's cool, and yes, Williams had something to do with it, but it's more about the character than the actress. Jclemens (talk) 21:37, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

As a starting point, while I still believe that the cultural impact section equally belongs in this article I also agree with the very reasonable argument that it should be included in the Arya Stark article, so I have copy pasted both paragraphs to that article. It will be interesting to see how they develop there (I will add more there tomorrow). ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 00:19, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Articles can always be improved

I made a few improvements to the lead, to make them less needlessly wordy and more factual. This was reverted on the grounds the article has passed a GA review. A GA review does not mean the article cannot be improved.

• "Williams garnered critical praise and accolades for her work on the show" - this is all very well, but it still leaves the reader uninformed as to what the praise and accolades were. It's wordy fluff. Is it not better to get on to the hard facts of her nominations rather than first talking her up?
• "and global recognition" - a vague phrase that could mean anything.
• "Williams'" - do we really need to specify again who were are talking about here?

Is there a problem with these changes? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 14:02, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Certainly articles can always be improved, or not improved. A Lead is always just an introduction, the is a whole subsection on the detailed recognition that this actress received for her appearances in the show. Hard facts and Details are always provided in the body of the article. Global recognition is not that vague, it simply means what it says, this show was a well known world wide phenomenon, an actor playing a leading character in this show gained international recognition. Repeating "Williams" is a minor point, but the subject has only just been introduced and her name starting a new sentence did split up what would be in respect an unnecessary long first sentence. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 14:34, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Father

Her father's name has been reported, so we should include it. For example, see this search where his name is reported in over a dozen sources. Wjhonson (talk) 18:48, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Many of those search results do not relate to her father, and there are only a couple of reliable sources (like The Independent) in that link that do relate to her father (see WP:RSP. As the father had a minor (negative) role in William's personal life, divorcing her mother when Williams was only 4 months, I do not think that the was a problem with delay in adding his name. In fact, just because we have a detail about somebody, we don't always have to include it. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 02:22, 29 September 2022 (UTC)